Rear U-Joint & Torque ball stuff

[RoadMaster75]

Think Spring '58 Fans,

My rear U-joint is clunking a bit & wanted to ping the group on the topic of
U-joint replacement in the rear & the other end..the torque ball assembly
at the back of the trans. ANyone done all this? Makes sense to me to
do it all at once and be done with it...
Would love to hear how others have done these tasks!

Regards
Mike "RoadMaster75"

[58limited]

I am about to tackle the torque ball, but have never done the u-joint. My understanding is that there were two different u-joints used and you can't tell which one until you take it out, so don't order a u-joint until you take the old one out.

I have been advised not to tighten the torque ball until the car is sitting on all four tires, or it will leak. For this, you will need to either be able to lift the car in such a way that the car's full weight is on all of the tires, or if you will need access to a pit like those used at oil change facilities.

Do you have a shop manual? It should guide you through the process - there is one on ebay now.

[RoadMaster75]

Thanks for the words of encouragement!
Luckily I have a 4 post lift with diamond plate ramps so putting full weight on the car
while it's in the air will be easy. The primitive diagrams in the shop manual
and usual vagueries/omissions make the job exciting!

Until I studied the rear U-joint section carefully, I didn't realize that there is
a "rear prop shaft/yoke" and a"front yoke" at the long end of the shaft.
So you really have to blow everything apart to get at it.
Gotta be the most complex drive shaft setup ever! Thanks for the advice on
two different types of U-joints. I'll drop the rear axle and disassemble everything before
I order parts. This makes me love my "open" drive line cars much more! I changed
a Jeep CJ7 rear U -joint on the side of the road one time. Used a screwdriver & a cheap
adjustable wrench without jacking it up; took about ten minutes.....LOL

Work on the "LoadMaster" (51 Chevy 1/2 ton panel truck with Buick 455/turbo400)
continues. Now that I replaced ALL of the lower floor, cowl, firewall metal there
is enough rigidity to lift the body off. Thank God it was fitted with an OPEN drive line
by the previous 50's hot rodder that built it. It has a 57 Olds rear end. THose are ususally
bullet proof & it has the same 5 on 5 bolt pattern as a Buick, so I can use some nice Riv wheels on it.

Thanks again for the moral support! Regards
Mike

[58limited]

Oh, forgot to mention: I've been told by everyone I've consulted about changing the torque ball - you have to disconnect the rear end as well as the torque tube from the transmission and slide the whole unit out from under the car enough to separate it from the tranny. This might make it easier to service the u-joint too. after you slide everything back, don't tighten the torque tube until you have the weight on all four wheels and the car is level.

[groundhog180]

Hi Mike,
I see this thread is a week old,but if you haven't finished already pay strict attention to cleaning the torque ball mating surfaces. You will find that they are corroded and if not cleaned perfectly it will leak. I was less than careful the first one I did and had to go back and re-do it. Even now it drips some,but the car hasn't moved in months.

The manual gives good diagrams/explanations in chapters 5-6. Torque specs are on page 6-1.

Lee

[RoadMaster75]

Hi Lee,

Thanks for the good advice & moral support.

Will document the project when I undertake it.

Think Spring!
Mike

[RoadMaster75]

Hello to the 58 Buick Brotherhood,

Well here it is two years later and I'm still working up the courage to attack this job; but with a new twist!
My "clunking" has gotten really bad now... So, the time has come to remove the
entire rear axle assembly from the car and assess what's what under there.

Since my last posts I took a new and even more paranoid measure....
Even though the clunking sounds like rear u-joint and is coming from that area, I decided
to do a major overhaul of the rear drive train. To that end I have acquired an entire
rear torque tube assembly with the shorty front and rear drive shafts, long splined shaft, a new torque ball
kit from CARS, Inc., a new drive shaft bearing; AND.... a complete replacement rear differential
from a 58 Roadmaster75 just like mine. And, New rear springs while I'm down there!
I did this just in case the "clunk" ends up being
a fatal rear differential problem...instead of just the u-joint.
So, I have everything I need to put it right (I hope).

I have some questions before tearing into it, with the shop manuals as a guide...

1.) Can anyone share experiences in removing the upper and lower spring clamp bolts?
Even tho this car only has 39,000 miles they look very permanent! I hate the thought of
breaking the studs or bolts holding the spring perches on....... I'm thinking of simply taking off some of the weight of the
car to neutralize spring pressure and carefully cut off the old springs; then carefully cut off the nuts
so as not to injure the studs..... Any advice?

2.) When re-inserting the entire rear axle assembly into the splined output of the torque ball
what level of difficulty is there in correctly lining up the "Keyed" splined shaft?
You can't just "slide it in" apparently.... Manual warns that it only goes in one way!
It seems that the huge bulk of the entire rear axle assembly will be difficult to
navigate precisely in the keyed orientation of that splined shaft.... Any experiences to share??
Or, advice?

3.) How difficult is it to remove the front drive shaft yoke once the torque ball is removed?
I have the spare unit with a new u-joint and thought I'd replace that , too while I have this
monster all apart. Shop manual says it's just one bolt that you loosen with a thinwall socket
right through the yoke...

I'm thinking this whole torque tube drive train thing is the curse of Buicks!
I would happily rather rebuild the motor than do this, but I wish to get it right, so thanks in advance for any
advice, help, guidance, or moral support!

Mike "Roadmaster75"

[bhclark]

Wish I could help.
My '58 is solid, except the tranny leaks when not driven.

My '59 however, needs the full meal deal from the torque ball back and I'm afraid to tackle it as well...

[RoadMaster75]

Your 59 should pretty much be the same process....
I've gotten some good advice over at the Buick Club of America forums over at the AACA
on this same topic.

As soon as I get my current truck project (Buick engine of course!) in the paint booth, I'll be dismantling
the 58 Roadmaster's entire rear drive train for repairs, replacements, and inspection.
I've committed to document the whole process and take a bunch of photos.

Estimating that the job will commence later this month or early Jan.

Stay tuned
Mike "Roadmaster75"

[RoadMaster75]

REAR AXLE UPDATE!!!! Jan. 18, 2011
I'm stumped!!!
My car is a 39,000 mile all original car. No evidence of any previous damage or paint work.
It's in very nice condition.

I have a problem on removal of the entire rear axle assembly. It has had a noisy
rear U-joint and I decided to remove the rear axle assembly as per the shop manual;
and replace the rear springs, shocks,
etc. while it was out of the car.

I have it on a 4 post lift and have raised the rear of the car with blocks on the deck of the lift.

Currently the entire assembly is free of springs, shocks, radius rod, brake lines, and emergency brake cables.

The problem, in short, is that the forward end of the splined shaft WILL NOT slide out of the the torque ball.
It moved roughly 1/8" on the 3" inch pins (per shop manual) and will not move any further.

I can wiggle the whole thing side to side and jack it up and down, while it's sitting on the floor jack. I also hooked a ratchet strap around the pumpkin and the other end hooked on the frame near the bumper bracket to exert a bit of rearward force while jostling it around...to no avail. I even put the wheels back on the rear end and lowered them to the deck and tried to roll the assembly on the wheels....won't budge.

I'm stumped. I must be missing something, OR something is amuck in there... Any ideas ?; before I get out the plasma cutter and saws-all?

At this point the weight of the axle assembly is sitting on the wheels. Nothing else is holding it in. The two
3 inch pins are the only attaching points. According to the manual it should just slide out....?

I'd consider myself an advanced amateur restorer (body offs, race car and street rod fabrication, etc)
but this has me baffled and I don't want to do anything to damage the Flight Pitch trans; as it works perfectly.

Thanks in advance for any enlightenment!
Mike

[58limited]

I wonder if the pns themselves are causing the problem? I took a rear end off a parts car once, and I had to pry it apart with a long flat iron rod at the torque ball. I do not recommend that for a restoration, of course.

I wonder if you can chain the front of the car in place, wrap another chain around the differential, and use a chain hoist or Come-A-Long to pull on the differential in order to pull the axle from the transmission. You might be able to get a lot more force that way.

[RoadMaster75]

Yes, I thought the pins might be an issue, too.

So, I checked them last night and they turn easily; indicating they are
not bearing much weight... I cut the heads off two new grade 8 bolts to make
the pins.

I did in fact put a ratchet strap and a comealong on the rear axle and
tightened the heck out of them; didn't budge.

I'll be doing more of that , but at different angles. I am advised at the BCA forum that the
angle is critical and binding could be experienced.
Interestingly, the shop manual never mentions it!

Thanks!
mike

[bhclark]

The shop manual as usual, leaves a lot to be desired.

If you had been working in a Buick garage for years, then the information they leave out of the manual would be considered common sense.

Remember, these torque tubes had been around for many years.

[RoadMaster75]

Hello gang

Posted this this morning on the AACA/Buick Club of America forums:
Having zero luck in freeing this axle up. Have tried every conceivable angle to withdraw it from the torque ball.

Any ideas are appreciated.....!

Jan 23 Update:

Have rotated, pulled, pushed, pulled the rear axle assembly to no avail.
It will not budge beyond what you see in the photos (link below).

Nothing is attaching it other than the front splined shaft in the torque ball.
As you see it is resting on a transmission jack; no springs in the way.
You'll see a chassis angle gauge on the torque tube. I use this to match
the angle of the transmission as a starting point. Then, I raise it it a degree or two or lower it a degree or two, etc; while pulling it at the rear with a come along and ratchet straps in order to pull it evenly rearward. Pulling these as tight as I can, then tapping the tube with a hammer or nudging with a pry bar has resulted in a total of about 3/16" rearward movement.

What could possibly be capturing this shaft so hard? Will try again when in a better mood, but if it won't budge I am considering dis-assembling the rear end from the short piece of torque tube, drive the rolled pin out of the rear
U-joint and remove it. I would then bolt a slide hammer to the four
bolts at the rear of the long tube section and have at it.

Will keep the group updated, but this is the nightmare scenario for Buick torque tube owners in my opinion. Hopefully, I have pasted a link here correctly. Let me know if you can see them....
Thanks Team!!!

Mike

MobileMe Gallery

[morje58]

Hi

When I pull my off. I could not get the front shaft to get out of the torque ball. I took a hard piece of wood and placed it on the 4 bolt holding the front shaft and rear shaft together and hammer really hard. It did just come out like ind the pic you have listet . but i just keep hammering and then it finally came out.

Hope it´s help

Morten

www.picasaweb.google.com/morje58